Author Topic: Repubblica di Venezia contro Vasilij Obilic  (Read 208 times)

Germano D'altavilla

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Repubblica di Venezia contro Vasilij Obilic
« on: 22 January, 2019, 03:31:11 PM »
Martedì, addì 22 Gennaio 1319

Noi, Germano D'altavilla,magistrato di Venezia in nome del Sovrano, in virtù delle leggi del Corpus Iuris Serenissimae, sono chiamato a giudicare messer Vasilij Obilic con l'accusa di aver infranto i suddetti articoli del Corpus Iuris Venetiae II: "Protezione risorse", "Lesa maestà" del Corpus Iuris Venetiae II. L'imputato è stato colto in flagrante in 2 occasioni a Metz da Battista Auditore e a Varazdin da Gustavo Dandolo rispettivamente il 19/1 e il 21/1.

Sono convocati presso questo tribunale il Doge Giovanni Soranzo, Battista Auditore, Gustavo Dandolo e l'imputato Vasilij Obilic.

L'accusato ed i convocati hanno 24 ore a partire dalla notifica per poter intervenire in tale sede per difendersi avendo facoltà di nominare un avvocato di sua fiducia che si presenti in sua vece presentando una delega scritta

Germano D'altavilla- Serenissimo Magistrato di Venezia

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End

Tuesday, January 22, 1319
We, Germano D'altavilla, magistrate of Venice in the name of the Sovereign, by virtue of the laws of Corpus Iuris Serenissimae, are called to judge Messer Vasilij Obilic on charges of having broken the aforementioned articles of Corpus Iuris Venetiae II: "Resource Protection ", "lese majesty"of the Corpus Iuris Venetiae II. The defendant was caught in flagrante on 2 occasions at Metz by Battista Auditore and at Varazdin by Gustavo Dandolo on 19/1 and 21/1 respectively.
The Doge Giovanni Soranzo, Battista Auditore, Gustavo Dandolo and the accused Vasilij Obilic are summoned to this court.
The accused and the convoked have 24 hours from the notification to be able to intervene in that location to defend themselves having the right to appoint a lawyer of his trust that comes in his place by submitting a written proxy
Germano D'Altavilla - Serene Magistrate of Venice
« Last Edit: 24 January, 2019, 07:15:05 PM by Germano D'altavilla »

Battista Auditore

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Re: Repubblica di Venezia contro Vasilij Obilic
« Reply #1 on: 23 January, 2019, 12:57:34 AM »
Buonasera a tutti i presenti
porto con me i documenti con i quali accuso Vasilij Obilic del furto a Metz




Good evening to all those present
I bring with me the documents with which I accuse Vasilij Obilic of the theft in Metz

Giovanni Soranzo

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Re: Repubblica di Venezia contro Vasilij Obilic
« Reply #2 on: 23 January, 2019, 02:10:48 PM »
Buongiorno Signori,
attendiamo l'intervento di Gustavo Dandolo ma già le prove che ha portato Battista sono chiare dell'intento del malfattore.
Io accuso Vasilij anche di non aver rispettato la cghiusura delle miniere con promulga "Protezione delle risorse" del 09-Jan-1318



Good morning gentlemen,
we await the intervention of Gustavo Dandolo but already the evidence that led Battista are clear of the intent of the evildoer.
I also accuse Vasilij of not respecting the closure of the mines with the promulgation of "Resource Protection" of 09-Jan-1318


Germano Mantegna

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Re: Repubblica di Venezia contro Vasilij Obilic
« Reply #3 on: 23 January, 2019, 04:01:47 PM »
Buongiorno a tutti,purtroppo per motivi di lavoro Gustavo Dandolo non si è potuto presentare al Vosto cospetto,al suo posto ci sarò io Germano Mantegna,capitano della guardia,a presentare le prove che colgono l'imputato in fregrante di reato.
http://i65.tinypic.com/5n0zyd.png

Germano D'altavilla

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Re: Repubblica di Venezia contro Vasilij Obilic
« Reply #4 on: 24 January, 2019, 12:46:08 PM »
Buon giorno a tutti voi presenti nell'aula, oggi addì 24 gennaio 1319, io, Germano D'altavilla, Magistrato di Venezia; prese in visione le prove portate dai testimoni e vedendo l'assenza immotivata dell'imputato Vasilij Obilic, secondo le leggi della Repubblica di Venezia, dichiaro che il suddetto Obilic sia condannato a una multa di 2500 monete e una reclusione di 5 giorni per i reati prescritti in precedenza e per il reato di cui all'Art. 9 del Corpus Iuris Venetiae II aggiungendo anche la sua assenza al processo; se la multa non può essere interamente pagata ogni suo avere trovatogli addosso sarà requisito, oggetti e abiti; inoltre, una volta scontata la pena, egli sarà persona non gradita all'interno del nostro Regno e incarcerata a vista per un ulteriore processo. Come misura immediata promulgo un ordine di cattura verso l'imputato in modo che sconti i suoi crimini nei nostri confronti.

La seduta è tolta.

Eng

Good morning to all of you present in the hall, today on January 24, 1319, I, Germano D'Altavilla, Magistrate of Venice; taken into consideration the evidence brought by witnesses and seeing the unjustified absence of the accused Vasilij Obilic, according to the laws of the Republic of Venice, I declare that the above Obilic is sentenced to a fine of 2500 coins and a 5-day imprisonment for the offenses previously prescribed and for the crime referred to in Art. 9 of Corpus Iuris Venetiae II adding also its absence to the trial; if the fine can not be paid in full, every one of them found on it will be a requirement, objects and clothes; moreover, once he has served his sentence, he will be an unwelcome person in our Kingdom and imprisoned on sight for a further trial. As an immediate measure, I am issuing an arrest order to the accused so that he discounts his crimes against us.

The session is removed.
« Last Edit: 24 January, 2019, 07:19:07 PM by Germano D'altavilla »

Willhelm Tell

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Re: Repubblica di Venezia contro Vasilij Obilic
« Reply #5 on: 24 January, 2019, 05:50:45 PM »
Sorry if i intervene, but i like following trials on the forum. And this one is not following administration rules at all !

According to the starting message of the judge G. D'altavilla, the prosecuted has violated 1 law. 1 law can MAXIMUM fine with 1000 silver coins and 3 days of prison.

In the final message, the punishment is 3000 silver coins (out of where ?!) and 5 days of prison (out of where ?!)


I contacted the judge by MP and he answered that the prosecuted receives a fine for
- taking illegally resources
- not answering to the king of venice (and i guess the trial)
- and not being present at the trial

And having nothing to do, i checked venitian laws. And there are no laws allowing the judge to do that LOL !

Taking illegally resources - it's stated -
Quote
Today 9 January 1318
I Giovanni Soranzo will procure the closure of the mines of Metz, Tirol and Varazdin.
Anyone who is surprised in the above-mentioned regions, with a tool for mining the ministries, will be immediately arrested and then be tried.
The guilty of the crime will suffer a quantifiable punishment in 1000 denari and 5 days of imprisonment, unless otherwise specified.


Giovanni Soranzo
Proclaimed on: 09-Jan-1318, 12:48:30

PS: it's illegal to put 5 days of prison as a single punishment, by the way. but ...

so, we consider 1000 sc + 3 days of prison

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not answering the Doge when the latter wrote at the prosecuted .... let's consider it Lese Majesty
Quote

Art.4 [Lese-majeste] Anyone who offends in any way the honor and prestige of the King, or of the Government, shall be punished by a fine of 500 silver coins or the sequestration of assets to an equivalent value.


Unclear law ... let's consider it a D-offense. 3 days of prison + 500 sc of fine (even though it is never stated that it's a C offense or D offense).

And finally, there is no law that allows the Judge to punish someone for not participating at the trial ...

thus, in this way the final fine would be of 1000 + 500 + 0 = 1500. And 5 days of prison are right.


This is why i write here.
We have to put trial COMPLETELY free of admins rules and we can freely punish people
or
we have to follow rules made by admins and not inventing.

This trial should be closed. The judge violated his own 2 articles of law, hereby
Quote
6 Ignorantia legis non excusat. Ogni cittadino ha il dovere di informarsi sulle leggi vigenti nel Repubblica. Nessuno può invocare a propria scusante l'ignoranza della Legge.

7 Ogni imputato ha diritto a un processo equo e può essere assistito da un avvocato di sua fiducia .
[/i]

Judge don't even know venetian laws and this trial is not fair and right.

Please. this should be a warning that justice system has to be changed, it has no sense to use justice system in that way.
« Last Edit: 24 January, 2019, 05:56:57 PM by Willhelm Tell »

Germano D'altavilla

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Re: Repubblica di Venezia contro Vasilij Obilic
« Reply #6 on: 24 January, 2019, 07:30:46 PM »
Lei non è l'avvocato dell'imputato e oltre che essere fuori tempo dato che il processo è concluso non ha l'autorità di parlare in quest'aula di tribunale come dichiara la Wiki "Only the Magistrate, Prosecutor, Defendant, appointed Prosecution Barrister, or appointed Defense Attorney and called Witnesses may speak during a trial. Whoever speaks without permission can be fined 100 silver coins at the Judge's discretion, and they could be even punished for breaking forum rules. The fine will be collected by Guglielmo di Valenza, by force if needed."

Eng

You are not the defendant's lawyer and besides being out of time as the trial is over you don't have the authority to speak in this courtroom as the Wiki states "Only the Magistrate, Prosecutor, Defendant, appointed Prosecution Barrister , or appointed Defense Attorney and called Witnesses may speak in a trial Whoever speaks without permission can be fined 100 silver coins at the Judge's discretion, and they could be punished for breaking by force if needed. "