Author Topic: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul  (Read 553 times)

Fabiotto Borgia

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Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« on: 04 November, 2018, 08:01:03 PM »
By the power given to me by the Kingdom of Cyrene I, Fabiotto Borgia, am  starting this crime procedure that sees  Krul Vrul accused of   Capital Offences.
He has violated the laws:
Article 5

ARTICLE 5
Anyone who wants to move to Cyrene must speak first with the Vassal who will then report to the Grand Duke. The applicant may be asked questions both by the Grand Duke, both by Vassall, both by the Captain of the Guard, and by the Judge. The applicant is required to respond to complete the transfer process. Who moves without having done this process can be arrested 3 days plus 1000 silver coins fine.

This is a capital offense and applies to everyone.



By the will of Grand Duke Ezzelino da Romano

The Defendant has 24 hours to make this Court know if he wants to appoint a Defense Attorney or wants to defend by himself.

The Barrister has 24 hours to make his opening remarks.
« Last Edit: 13 January, 2019, 10:10:40 PM by Fabiotto Borgia »

Konrad Einhart

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Re: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« Reply #1 on: 04 November, 2018, 08:39:06 PM »
I confirm that I wrote to Krul Vrul to ascertain his intentions.  Instead of answering me, he went to sea and went offline.  He became citizen for less than a minute before leaving.  He did not ask my permission to become a citizen of Cyrene, per our law.

Konrad Einhart
Vassal Cyrene

Fabiotto Borgia

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Re: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« Reply #2 on: 04 November, 2018, 09:41:42 PM »
Here the Evidence sent me by Vassall

Ernesto Strozzi

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Re: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« Reply #3 on: 05 November, 2018, 01:38:38 AM »
There was a previous version of the law; this is not a new crime, but the penalties were changed. So, this trial is valid.

Geralt Stark

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Re: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« Reply #4 on: 05 November, 2018, 09:01:32 AM »
//

Sorry to interrupt since this is not my case, but it actually violated game rules.

Cyrene kingdom laws: https://medieval-europe.eu/index.php/region/info_laws/579

There is just one laws, but records of no previous laws. Additionally, in the latest laws, there is no reference to/mention of the previous laws' article no or their validities.

If I miss something, kindly post here.

Thank you.

Moderator #3

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Re: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« Reply #5 on: 05 November, 2018, 11:09:10 AM »
Hello

This is a RP area.

Please stop OOC talks.

Go ahead with the trial.

According to rules, administration will decide whether it is correct or wrong and will act accordingly to it.


Fabiotto Borgia

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Re: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« Reply #6 on: 13 January, 2019, 09:49:59 PM »
Krul Vrul is sentenced to 3 days in prison and 1000 silver coins in fine.
Any intrusion in this process will be punished with a fine  of 500 silver coins for outrage at the court .
The case is solved.
« Last Edit: 13 January, 2019, 10:10:58 PM by Fabiotto Borgia »

Svatomir Brodnik

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Re: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« Reply #7 on: 14 January, 2019, 12:05:48 AM »
Krul Vrul is sentenced to 3 days in prison and 1000 silver coins in fine.
Any intrusion in this process will be punished with a fine  of 500 silver coins for outrage at the court .
The case is solved.
I still recommend that you read the wiki.https://wiki.medieval-europe.eu/index.php?title=The_Trial Especially about the timing of the courts. there's not much you can do it I believe in you. Admin please delete topic time of the court has expired. Court is invalid.

Fabiotto Borgia

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Re: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« Reply #8 on: 14 January, 2019, 12:28:17 AM »

I recognize that your intervention is aimed at helping me in this difficult case and therefore the fine in case of interference in this case will not be issued.
I admit I do not have experience as a judge and I will read the link you sent me and I will try to deepen the question well. In case you should be right, I will not have problems in canceling the sentence.

In the meantime, until I have investigated the issue through the link, or until the administrators (not the moderators who only have to watch the correct forms of the forum) will do light by kindly and patiently explaining the matter, the sentence remains valid

Thank you

Svatomir Brodnik

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Re: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« Reply #9 on: 14 January, 2019, 01:24:33 AM »
1)Trial Duration
The maximum duration of a Trial is 144 hours. A trial schedule may be shortened or increased if all the involved parties agrees.                                                                                                                                                                        2)If the Judge does not post for more than 48 hours, then the Trial must be considered not valid. There are many more items. but I don't like to work without pay.

Richard Shelton

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Re: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« Reply #10 on: 14 January, 2019, 01:33:30 AM »
There are 2 things not valid:

-A law could not be retroactive
-The trial can't close after so much days

This trial is invalid

This is a warning for Fabiotto Borgia
« Last Edit: 14 January, 2019, 01:36:03 AM by Richard Shelton »
Richard Shelton - eastern warlord *[STAFF] Moderator

Fabiotto Borgia

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Re: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« Reply #11 on: 14 January, 2019, 10:00:29 AM »
After I have analyzed the link concerning trial, I invalidate the trial number 3 (who it was in pause because during this trial Cyrene was occupied).
As for Sir Svatomir, that I consider lawer of Krul Vrul (even if he had to do when trial started in the begin) in this case I will not give fine for intervantion to Lord Richard Shelton.

Anything will be happen to Krul Vrul is not a deal that concerns this trial anymore.
Trial is solved.
Now moderators can close topic, thanks.

Richard Shelton

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Re: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« Reply #12 on: 15 January, 2019, 01:01:22 AM »
The moderator represents at 100% administration I have every right to interfere and cancel a process if it is not regular.
This process is not regular and I have way of thinking that it has been operated in bad faith.
I assign three days of ban to Fabiotto borgia that has broken the rule H.
I will contact the person concerned and if he receives a punishment because of this illegal process, I will ask the administration to fine and temporarily ban in game the characters involved for their abuse.
It is necessary to be very careful in carrying out the processes. Thank you
Richard Shelton - eastern warlord *[STAFF] Moderator

Alexander VII

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Re: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« Reply #13 on: 26 April, 2019, 05:21:16 AM »
A correct, if not actually agreeable ending......under current wiki terms and standards.

This has been an interesting read.
It exposes some exploitable cirizenship  loopholes on the part of the defendant.
 It also exposes more loopholes in the law process outlined in wiki.

I do believe we need a topic regarding the process as it is written "verbatim" as well as the overall observation of ethics regarding trial. As well it is much too vague regarding institutional offenses and that portion requires suspension until the details may be assigned.



One last point. Most kingfoms have in fact included a law allowing the Regent an "at will" discretionary punishment. These should all be summarily removed to avoid the bypassing of "due process" otherwise the entire judicial system means nothing.

Not to mention how the absence of admin support may effect timing voncerns regarding the trial.

This case also opened that an existing nation still legally standing may not have a criminal prosecution while occupied....or at least the region of the courthouse is occupied...and no crime is therefore committed. THAT is most assuredly a gross exploitation that interferes with timing limits.....because the judge may be forced to evacuate. Trial ends. So crime becomes unpunishable???? Ever????
Certainly not what I would call due process.

I stop there and ask if anyone wishes to open the other topic under non-rp.
Faith Defines All Things; their remembrances clearly defined make them living custom.

Willhelm Tell

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Re: Trial N.003- the Kingdom against Krul Vrul
« Reply #14 on: 28 April, 2019, 11:20:46 AM »
the only solution is a totally free of move justice. Instead of 1 judge we could say that we have 2-3-4judges that have to follow a trial and decide, not only one. but they can follow every law they want ! no limits. and admins just check harassment if it is the case. but every kingdom can write every kind of law and can set every kind of punishment, and judges can directly open the player's inventory to take the money to pay the fine. and admins would have just to control that in order to punish abuses.
it would be a better justice, more realistic. instead of putting strange limits.

but of course, many won't appreciate the freedom to punish.