Author Topic: Council of Peace  (Read 257 times)

Pero Anes

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Council of Peace
« on: 12 May, 2020, 01:20:05 PM »
To the optimists we will say: don't expect too much in advance from this forum. To the skeptics we will say: don't expect that those who prefer to rely on public and open diplomacy be prevented from having a say, even if in minority. To the realists we will say: you only get somewhere if you try to move your feet, even if you have to give two steps back in order to move one big step further.

In the beginning we promoted the idea of neutral states - that is, states without territorial ambitions, politically neutral vis à vis the other states, which would work as a sort of save-havens. Nowadays the Holy City resembles such a state. Discuss does bear fruit.

Since this is an in game diplomatic forum or meeting point for discussion where everyone can

present an issue to be discussed by all

make a complaint or accusation

demand negotiations

announce a treaty or a religious resolution

propose an international law

promote an idea or doctrine

All regents de facto are entitled to have a seat here. Old regents and religious leaders too, because once a regent/religious leader you are connected with state/church affairs forever. Prominent people have a seat too.

No one is forced to comply with the resolutions voted here.

No one is prevented from having a say.

Everyone has the right to vote - but votes from current heads of state and church have the value of two votes, other votes (former statesmen, clergymen and prominent people) are unitary.

Absent regents or heads of church can be represented by whom they designate.


The promoters: Pero Anes e Courtney & Anne De Courtney-Anes


Record of proceedings
« Last Edit: 13 May, 2020, 12:17:46 PM by Pero Anes »
Pero Anes e Courtney

Duc d'Aquitaine, Marquis de Vexin & Lord of Arberia and Yorkshire
Scholar, Emeritus & founder of the Order of the Serpent
Founder of the Historical Archive    
Founder of the The Merchant's Guild    
Trader, parchment collector & moneylender

Eurosia Della Mirandola

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Re: Council of Peace
« Reply #1 on: 12 May, 2020, 03:03:44 PM »
Good morning, it's a great idea.

Observing now that I have withdrawn from international political life the international situation and after hearing some ex-regent experts I realized that today a structure that could help, kingdoms and regents is missing: a castle of peace, a palace of mediation, a structure where archive, file, study the mutual accusations that the parties make with each other.
This institution should consist of 1 magistrate per active realm who want to have a third arbitration representation, experts in international law, ex regents, ex magistrates, ex-commissioned lawyers who can freely provide their experience for mediation between the parties.
This institution, we do not want to impose above the parties, nor replace the normal magistries for violations of sovereign laws, but offer an arbitration service for the peaceful resolution of territorial disputes, rights of extraction of resources, commercial rights, banking, financial, for all realms that ask for arbitration.
I think it's a great idea.
Eventually it can also be an institution for those poor citizens of each kingdom, and without money who would have no chance to ask for justice and would have their case dismissed or resolved without the help of a defense attorney.

Willhelm Tell

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Re: Council of Peace
« Reply #2 on: 12 May, 2020, 06:01:43 PM »
international associations are born in 1945 with UN or before with the League of Nations in 1920, here we are in 1320, nothing existed to make international laws or to solve international cases.

You are trying to create a sopra-national system to solve wars or to block wars, but to me the point is another: many people don't want wars :) this is the initial statement.

But what i think is that it is a medieval game, full of wars. Just we should create some mechanics to make wars more interesting to acquire new lands, new citizens, new castles, new strategic regions, new resources we don't have ... not only fighting to push our enemy outside the game.

Because if we block wars, we also block a large part of trade. Weapons, armors, healings (religious roles + surgery kits and healing kits), food, alcohol, ... are greatly dependent of wars ! the more we fight and the more we need these goods. If we don't fight, nobody buys these products.

Now, a peace council is clearly anachronistic but could be done, but we return at the usual problem we had when there was the war Patri VS dormolites in rome/sicily and then in Aragona. Dormolites NEVER participated at the council cause why surrendering if they can just leave and revolt elsewhere ? what can this new peace council do, i don't think much, overall when there are no intensions to finish a war cause the "loser" doesn't want to negotiate the end and the "winner" can't arrest the enemy nor taking them as war prisoners nor siege them nor loot them nor decrease enemies' attributes to make them weaker. so we always remain at a status quo and nobody negociate.

Svatomir Brodnik

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Re: Council of Peace
« Reply #3 on: 12 May, 2020, 06:41:08 PM »
 For many years, this "Switzerland of the middle ages" was Aquitaine. Everyone saw what happened. Until the mercenaries are returned, the idea is dead. Good joke about Rome.

Eurosia Della Mirandola

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Re: Council of Peace
« Reply #4 on: 12 May, 2020, 09:13:21 PM »
f I remember correctly, Darius of Persia was the first to establish a similar body, then the dispute between Sparta and Athens was managed by a third party, then in the medieval period this task was only for the Pope.
In my opinion, however, giving the Pope here on ME the power to decide which regents have made a mistake and which kingdoms would jeopardize all those who would like to try to attempt arbitration.
Then, continuing with the real story, the body most similar to this that is being hypothesized with the help of Pero is not the one suggested by Will but the "Permanent Court of Arbitration", 1899, eventually we can go to study the statute and the state arbitration contracts.
But the goal is not to stop wars, you can always do it, it is to give you a judgment, and if you think about it it does not take the game away, on the contrary it amplifies it.

Here are some examples of what could be done

XXX declare war on AAA
YYY and ZZZ allies of XXX
BBB and CCC allies of AAA
AAA, BBB, CCC ask for arbitration to the body, XXX, YYY, ZZZ accept but in the meantime continue their war
XXX provides a variety of reasons why XXX has a duty to attack AAA
AAA provides a variety of reasons why XXX shouldn't
The body that we are inventing one post at a time meets, votes, the majority is in favor of XXX at 75%

XXX + YYY + ZZZ attack AAA + BBB + CCC

10 out of 12 citizens for XXX, 5 out of 30 citizens for YYY, 0 out of 30 citizens for ZZZ.
5 out of 5 citizens participate for AAA, 20 out of 21 citizens for BBB, 18 out of 19 citizens for CCC
attack in 10 + 5 + 0, defend 5 + 20 + 18
the attack fails

XXX receives (10/12) * 0.75 * 100 = 625 Glory Points
(12-10) * 0.35 * 100 = 70 Infamy Points

YYY receives (5/30) * 0.75 * 100 = 12.5 Glory Points
(30-5) * 0.35 * 100 = 875 Infamy Points

ZZZ receives (0/30) * 0.75 * 100 = 0 Glory Points
(30-0) * 0.35 * 100 = 1050 Infamy Points

in the deployment of the defenders instead AAA receives
(5/5) * 0.75 * 100 = 75 Infamy Points
(5-5) * 0.35 * 100 = 0 Glory Points

I don't calculate BBB and CCC and then the formulas have just been invented to give an idea of ​​the potential but they would have to be decided collectively among all the members of the arbitration, but in the end there would be tables of states with their glory score and infamy, so from there choose even the most glorious ally who does not leave you on foot, all the kingdoms could weigh in the final percentage and in the choice to support one or the other cause, in the end, the mediation, but obviously if nobody says anything you can do all the wars you want, it is only an external tool, it would never have legal weight, it was not born to condemn but to arbitrate.

Pero Anes

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Re: Council of Peace
« Reply #5 on: 13 May, 2020, 12:22:26 PM »
Thank you, Lady Eurosia, for pointing out the already stated and also the obvious. And thank you again for your suggestions.
Pero Anes e Courtney

Duc d'Aquitaine, Marquis de Vexin & Lord of Arberia and Yorkshire
Scholar, Emeritus & founder of the Order of the Serpent
Founder of the Historical Archive    
Founder of the The Merchant's Guild    
Trader, parchment collector & moneylender

Jakob Djævelen

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Re: Council of Peace
« Reply #6 on: 15 May, 2020, 07:37:35 PM »
The large pan-european wars of the past ended with treaties and peace and some level of respect among the factions. The new brand of war does not allow this because the victors in these current times refuse to offer any concessions to the vanquished, preferring that the losers live in squalor or are forced to quit as a punishment for fighting. Thus the map is now a checkerboard.

Elizara Gray

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Re: Council of Peace
« Reply #7 on: 16 May, 2020, 06:35:29 AM »
The large pan-european wars of the past ended with treaties and peace and some level of respect among the factions. The new brand of war does not allow this because the victors in these current times refuse to offer any concessions to the vanquished, preferring that the losers live in squalor or are forced to quit as a punishment for fighting. Thus the map is now a checkerboard.
Disputable and sounds like a fairy-tale. All big wars I know ended very bad for many kingdoms and communities. There often remained no survivors to sign any treaty.
And if you speak particularly about the last year war in Iberia: we proposed our terms to the other side. Our terms was refused, therefore no treaty.

P.S: respect is not what is given to everyone by default.
Элизара Серова, Великая Пророчица Патриархальной Церкви
Elizara Gray, Grand Prophetess of Patriarchal Church


Eurosia Della Mirandola

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Re: Council of Peace
« Reply #8 on: 16 May, 2020, 10:42:21 AM »
Thanks Pero,i think it can develop, not everyone will join, but it's not a problem.  :)
This RPG group could help the winners to obtain a definitive victory by acting as referee and mediator for the factions: losers, winners, allies of the won, allies of the winner.
It could help the losers get war debt payments.
It could help the allies of the defeated to regulate and advise the exchange of conquered territories by eliminating the chessboard, which also has a real sense, regions without forms of local government, without captains, abandoned with the sole objective of controlling a resource.
They could help the losers to find a vassal region of the victorious kingdom and to rebuild a new life without migrating in search of prey kingdoms to occupy to reorganize themselves and return to war indefinitely.
They could help the allies of the defeated to build a reputation and find new allies among other realms.

For the various cases of minor investigations against citizens of each kingdom, he could provide defense lawyers, a single entity, a third party, which offers legal services.

For religious crimes and religious institutions, make available a set of people who can analyze the problem from multiple points of view.

I, among the members of the board, would also include a representative of each religion.

Willhelm Tell

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Re: Council of Peace
« Reply #9 on: 16 May, 2020, 07:18:55 PM »
The large pan-european wars of the past ended with treaties and peace and some level of respect among the factions. The new brand of war does not allow this because the victors in these current times refuse to offer any concessions to the vanquished, preferring that the losers live in squalor or are forced to quit as a punishment for fighting. Thus the map is now a checkerboard.

Jakob, every war ended with no treaty, only because there are no mechanics to define a winner and a loser and nobody wants to find a compromise. when scotland, sweden and allies attacked aquitaine in the last 2 months, did you offer terms of surrender ? no, because you know that Aquitaine won't accept them cause they lost what ... only Labourd, an empty region. And they lost nothing else, not even the army, not attributes, nor resources.
Now, hoping that factions at war will pursue a peace council it is pure utopia :) aquitaine, cyrene, ... still have the 2nd or the 3rd best armies in game, they lost nothing and continue to make profits and aquire resources, hoping they will surrender is really pure utopia :D Until we don't add new mechanics to change the bargain power among factions at war, nobody will go to the counci of peace.

Svatomir Brodnik

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Re: Council of Peace
« Reply #10 on: 16 May, 2020, 10:08:49 PM »
  all just to remove the idiotic rule 3 of the allies. They don't work as expected. And the problem will be solved, quite quickly, without stupid posts on forums....

Paola Bonetti

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Re: Council of Peace
« Reply #11 on: 17 May, 2020, 05:47:42 PM »
Instead of developing peace games we can't play anything afterwards.
I have an idea: we develop an option that matches the "take prisoners" raid attack.
If the raid with the option of taking prisoners is successful in the raid loot camp there is a concentration camp where stunned defenders are placed.
If the raid with the option of taking prisoners fails, only the concentration camp is created where the stunned attackers are placed.

The prisoner of war in the camp can challenge the other prisoners of the camp with the constraint city of existence of the camp, minimum time 2 hours, without paper, without wax, he is given the right to keep him automatically alive and for each prisoner the captain of the raid or the captain of the city can create a deposit, minimum 1,000 maximum 10,000

if no one pays anything, the prisoners are forced to change their citizenship at the choice of the winner with the obligation to keep it x months.

Svatomir Brodnik

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Re: Council of Peace
« Reply #12 on: 17 May, 2020, 07:47:01 PM »
Instead of developing peace games we can't play anything afterwards.
I have an idea: we develop an option that matches the "take prisoners" raid attack.
If the raid with the option of taking prisoners is successful in the raid loot camp there is a concentration camp where stunned defenders are placed.
If the raid with the option of taking prisoners fails, only the concentration camp is created where the stunned attackers are placed.

The prisoner of war in the camp can challenge the other prisoners of the camp with the constraint city of existence of the camp, minimum time 2 hours, without paper, without wax, he is given the right to keep him automatically alive and for each prisoner the captain of the raid or the captain of the city can create a deposit, minimum 1,000 maximum 10,000

if no one pays anything, the prisoners are forced to change their citizenship at the choice of the winner with the obligation to keep it x months.
Brilliant! More ideas like this..

Willhelm Tell

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Re: Council of Peace
« Reply #13 on: 19 May, 2020, 10:32:51 AM »
Instead of developing peace games we can't play anything afterwards.
I have an idea: we develop an option that matches the "take prisoners" raid attack.
If the raid with the option of taking prisoners is successful in the raid loot camp there is a concentration camp where stunned defenders are placed.
If the raid with the option of taking prisoners fails, only the concentration camp is created where the stunned attackers are placed.

The prisoner of war in the camp can challenge the other prisoners of the camp with the constraint city of existence of the camp, minimum time 2 hours, without paper, without wax, he is given the right to keep him automatically alive and for each prisoner the captain of the raid or the captain of the city can create a deposit, minimum 1,000 maximum 10,000

if no one pays anything, the prisoners are forced to change their citizenship at the choice of the winner with the obligation to keep it x months.

Paola, the point is that imagine we have a stringent justice system to avoind unnecessary prisoners, here people will get mad for being prisoners of war very often. and being able to change the citizenship to aquire the attacker's citizenship, i don't think it is good, nobody usually would like to take the defenders in his kingdom. Usually attackers want to block defenders, they don't want that defenders change ciitzenship, as an example check the Dormolites, nobody wanted them changing citizenship.

Instead of changing citizenship we could ask for
- ransoms: in silver coins or goods (if the player is a prisoner of war, a page of debt can be applied to his profile even with maluses ... - 50% in production if he doesn't pay or -50% in dogmas effects ... something like that)
- reduction in attributes
- loss of titles during x months and frozen to re-assignment during x months