Medieval-Europe Role Play Forum

RP - Balkan area Kingdoms => *Kingdom of Wallachia - Regno di Valacchia => Înalta Curte de Justiţie => Topic started by: Omar Yusuf Ibn Al-khattab on 02 November, 2015, 09:20:37 PM

Title: [CLOSED]Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: Omar Yusuf Ibn Al-khattab on 02 November, 2015, 09:20:37 PM
By the power of Law given to Wallachians by Her Majesty Queen Alisa Dvachevskaya and by power of Order blessed of Our Triune Deus, High Court of Wallachia by own initiative start this prosecution against crimes committed by Stefan Borsa.

Stefan Borsa is accused of violating of Laws of Wallachia for Occupation Period.

Prosecution will be represented by Krul Vrul. He have 24 hours to present accusations and his evidences.

In the same time I ask accused side to name a person who will represent him in the court.
Title: Re: Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: Krul Vrul on 03 November, 2015, 09:57:32 AM
Your Honor,

I am standing here today with intention to accuse Stefan Borsa, citizen of Wallachia, in violation of  Laws of Wallachia for Occupation Period and to prove this accusation indisputably with evidences.

Prosecution will try to prove in front of this court that Stefan Borsa violate following paragraph of the law:

Quote
From this moment City of Turnu is declared closed. It is forbidden for any follower of Pagan Heresy to cross the citywalls of Turnu without permission of Queen of Wallachia or her Chancellor.

For proving that I will present documents which show us that accused person is Believer of Pagan Heresy and was captured in Turnu where he is till now.

(http://gr-rr.narod.ru/me/stefan2.png)


(http://gr-rr.narod.ru/me/stefan1.png)

Both documents are issues on 2nd of November this year as can be seen on them.

As Chancellor of the kingdom or Her Majesty do not receive any request for granting permission and do not grant such a permission, it is obvious violation of Occupational Law.

The Prosecution ask for maximal penalty - 1000 sp fine and 3 days in prison.
Title: Re: Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: Omar Yusuf Ibn Al-khattab on 04 November, 2015, 05:48:28 PM
Many thanks to Prosecution. Accused can now present to us his defending remarks. He have 24 hour to do so.
Title: Re: Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: (RIP) Serafin Farac on 05 November, 2015, 09:47:16 AM
Your Honor,

I will represent Sefan Borsa in this trial.

With all my respect your Honor, you should read the conditions of a correct trial a lit of bit more on wiki.

You cand find the rules below:
http://wiki.medieval-europe.eu/index.php?title=The_Trial

(http://i67.tinypic.com/121ppv5.jpg)

The Judge is the one appointed IG; he/she is the President of the court of justice, and is responsible for delivering the final verdict of every trial. Verdicts given by the Judge should attempt to impartially weigh the Kingdom’s posted Laws against the body of evidence provided by both the Defense and Prosecution. The Judge must be present in the region where the trial is made for all the duration of the Trial.

The Judge must be present in the region where the trial is made. The trial is in Turnu, Stefan Borsa is in Turnu, but you, your honor,your not in Turnu. And you can't deny this.
I can't conceive that a Trial without the Judge in the region to judge the so-called "criminal". I can say that you are the "criminal" because you lead by your own rules.

Find screens below:

(http://i64.tinypic.com/30mu989.png)

(http://i65.tinypic.com/r9ijrq.png)

As you can see is not under your jurisdiction. It is unacceptable what is happen until now, I consider that this Trial is totally wrong and it should not be continued anymore.

Your honor, I demand you to drop out this Trial and restrain order that is made on Stefan Borsa's head.

Kind Regards,
Serafin Farac

Title: Re: Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: Omar Yusuf Ibn Al-khattab on 05 November, 2015, 06:56:09 PM
Dear Sir,

I must notice that the time when accused could name his representative passed and if we need to follow procedures strictly you violate trial rules and must be punished. But as the justice is our supreme goal we will close our eyes about this minor violation.

For your information the trial is started by and performed in the Royal Justice Court of CONSTANTA, and I am honored to be Judge of CONSTANTA. So there is no violation of trial procedure by my side as there is no obligation accused to be judged in region in which crime was performed or accused to be present in region of trial.

Now, as this little misunderstanding is solved I will give you 8 additional hours to represent you defending remarks.

Please if you have other questions about trial procedure you can contact me privately. In trial room you must strictly follow the procedure and limit your participation by presenting of defending remarks.
Title: Re: Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: (RIP) Serafin Farac on 06 November, 2015, 11:08:38 AM
You Honor,

So you suggest me to not follow the procedures strictly? This is what I understand from your message I must notice that the time when accused could name his representative passed and if we need to follow procedures strictly you violate trial rules and must be punished. But as the justice is our supreme goal we will close our eyes about this minor violation.. You know that you can be persecuted, if you, as Judge, the man who represent the Law, suggest to the Defence to break the rules. Do you want to bribe me? Speak to hear you an entire country. Also you want to contact you in your room, is something that you hide, your Honor?

Tell me If you are in Constanta, and you started the trial in Constanta, how could the "criminal" could be in other territory. Other thing, if you represent the Law of Wallahia, and for the region of Constanta, how could you put into practice and judge by a law that is not on your jurisdiction, you are in Constanta and you apply the law that is only for the region of Turnu. So, you honor, the trial sould be started in Turnu by Judge Alexei Grozny, the only one who could apply the Law for the region of Turnu.

Kind Regards,
Serafin Farac
Title: Re: Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: Omar Yusuf Ibn Al-khattab on 06 November, 2015, 02:09:07 PM
Dear Sir,

Your fantasies about justice system have nothing to do with this trial but we hear them. Now I give 24 hours to Prosecution for closing remarks.
Title: Re: Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: Krul Vrul on 06 November, 2015, 04:35:22 PM
Your Honor,
As the Defense do not object any of accusations, I have nothing more to tell and continue to ask for maximum penalty.
Title: Re: Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: Omar Yusuf Ibn Al-khattab on 07 November, 2015, 04:25:15 AM
Does Defending side have something to say as closing remarks about accusations presented by the Prosecution? Or want to plead in some other way?  Defense have 24 hours.
Title: Re: Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: (RIP) Serafin Farac on 08 November, 2015, 09:39:47 AM
Your Honor,

I advise you to release Stefan Borsa.

You broke the law, because you restrain Stefan Borsa more than 48 hour.
Please read the wiki:
http://wiki.medieval-europe.eu/index.php?title=The_Trial

Also, in order to keep the defendant from leaving town during his trial, the "victim" (or the Judge, when opening the trial) can contact the Guard Captain, who may at any time choose to perform a Restrain act upon the defendant in order to keep that defendant within the country for a period of up to 48 hours.

NOTE: It is possible for the Trial to continue past the 48 hour window of a Restrain act. Once a Restrain act has been lifted, the defendant should not leave town while his Trial is still active or the Trial will end immediately with a Guilty verdict automatically administered.


Please find below the evidence that Stefan Borsa has been restrain more than 48 hour:

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2dkeudv.jpg)


Kind Regards,
Alex
Title: Re: Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: sunchaser_general on 08 November, 2015, 10:04:22 AM
A ticket has been opened for this trial. Until is sorted out, the criminal must stay in region, and the trial is temporarily suspended.
Title: Re: Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: sunchaser_general on 09 November, 2015, 10:51:39 AM
A ticket has been opened asking to invalidate this Trial because the max restrain hours should be 48 hours as pointed here:

http://wiki.medieval-europe.eu/index.php?title=The_Trial#When_and_how_is_a_Trial_opened.3F

Quote
Also, in order to keep the defendant from leaving town during his trial, the "victim" (or the Judge, when opening the trial) can contact the Guard Captain, who may at any time choose to perform a Restrain act upon the defendant in order to keep that defendant within the country for a period of up to 48 hours.

However the Restrain Limit command has been raised recently to 104 hours in this release: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ykMEWOpD2_SX_322U5SN-cOQUfGBqA_15ga01lPn9gw/edit?usp=sharing and post release to 168 hours to reflect new Trial Duration. This is also stated in another wiki page:

http://wiki.medieval-europe.eu/index.php?title=Restrain#Restrain_Duration

Quote
Restrain duration will be raised to 168 hours to be consistent with the following trial schedule time:

I controlled also the mechanic and i confirm that the limit for a restrain is 168 hours.
Therefore, this trial can continue and should not be invalidated. These messages will be removed after 24 hours. Wiki will be fixed.

Please finish the trial within the stated time imits (excluded time of Administration intervention).




Title: Re: Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: Omar Yusuf Ibn Al-khattab on 09 November, 2015, 12:16:28 PM
As Defense do not object any of accusation presented by prosecution, I have no other option and proclaim Stefan Borsa  guilty.

Defendant is recognized violator of law and receive the maximum sentence for 1000 sp fee and 3 days in jail.

By so this trial is over.
Title: Re: [CLOSED]Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: sunchaser_general on 09 November, 2015, 12:43:54 PM
Because i said:

Quote
Until is sorted out, the criminal must stay in region, and the trial is temporarily suspended.

The criminal will be bought back in Costanta.
Title: Re: [CLOSED]Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: sunchaser_general on 09 November, 2015, 12:51:52 PM
The Criminal has been brought back to Constanta. Please proceed with the imprisonment.
Title: Re: [CLOSED]Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: (RIP) Serafin Farac on 09 November, 2015, 05:02:07 PM
Dear sirs,

So the "criminal" supposed to be in the region of Constanta in the first place, An Guglielmo, Stefan was not in Constanta, so you can't say that "The Criminal has been brought back to Constanta."
As I said in the first place, the "criminal" supposed to be in Constanta, not In Turnu. Of the Judge in Turnu not in Constanta, and this trial supposed to be closed long ago, and Stefan Borsa released.

So  Guglielmo Di Valenza please make order in this Trial.

Regards,
Serafin Farac
Title: Re: [CLOSED]Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: sunchaser_general on 09 November, 2015, 05:42:31 PM
Dear sirs,

So the "criminal" supposed to be in the region of Constanta in the first place, An Guglielmo, Stefan was not in Constanta, so you can't say that "The Criminal has been brought back to Constanta."
As I said in the first place, the "criminal" supposed to be in Constanta, not In Turnu. Of the Judge in Turnu not in Constanta, and this trial supposed to be closed long ago, and Stefan Borsa released.

So Guglielmo Di Valenza please make order in this Trial.

Regards,
Serafin Farac

The opened ticket didn't say anything about location, he mentioned restrain period (BTW it was not opened by you and I won't accept anymore tickets opened by people that is not directly involved in the trial).

Beside this, The Judge already answered to you. The restriction is only on Judge, The criminal is infact free to roam inside the Kingdom.

@Omar Yusuf Ibn Al-khattab: Is the criminal imprisoned or not?


Title: Re: [CLOSED]Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: (RIP) Theodor Svetoslav on 09 November, 2015, 05:46:15 PM
I am very confused what are the correct rules after this trial and reading Wiki rules. Clearly we need better clear rules for trials.I know my post isnt in place and i will delete it if needed after admins read it.
Title: Re: [CLOSED]Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: sunchaser_general on 09 November, 2015, 05:51:51 PM
Trials are complicated but there are always people that just want to mess around.
Title: Re: [CLOSED]Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: (RIP) Serafin Farac on 09 November, 2015, 07:03:13 PM
Guglielmo Di Valenza, as you can see I'm taking part of the Trial, please read it well. You wrote on the trial, not at the ticket, so we are talking about the trial. I ask you kindly to make order in this Trial not ticket, because something is wrong. We needed your decision. We all know that you favoring some groups of people, is not the first time, but now in the last moment you can make the correct decision. People read this trial and see that the rules are not very clear, as you said 3 different places on wiki 3 different information, you said that the "criminal" should be in Constanta, but he is not, but is incriminated for this. You say that is correct for us? To take into consideration only the things that pleasing you? As Theodor Svetoslav said, is confused, and your only defence is that we are people that we want to mess around, and trials are complicated? Yes trials are complicated even for you, I can see that for sure.

So Mister Guglielmo Di Valenza do not be so spiteful when someone tell you that something is wrong and you need to make order, because is your duty.

I know that you will ban me, because that is your logic and defence in front of so many people.

PS: Is a very attractive game but with people like you, a lot of us will quit, and that is sad.

Regards,
Serafin Farac
Title: Re: [CLOSED]Wallachia vs Stefan Borsa
Post by: sunchaser_general on 09 November, 2015, 07:13:54 PM
I won't ban you Serafin. Will clear up the off messages in this trial in 24 hours. Judge, please apply your punishment.
The wiki will be cleared up (the 48 hours thing only, the other things are clear for me.)

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